• This entry is part 8 of 8 in the series Meta Plots

    Over at the RPG Bloggers Network there is a lively discussion on experience points and the rewarding of it therefore. One interesting debate is going on about the murdering of villians and why do it and why not (the article points out that recurring villains are hard to introduce and it’s not necessary the fault of XP system why players want to kill them)

    My point of view? The experience points mechanic is the most potent of all Meta Plot. Yes, the experience points system is a Meta Plot too. How so? For it also influences how your players think in game. Remember the Meta Plot being able to guide players’ decisions, restrict their actions and so on? The experience points mechanic is a double whammy – for besides just guiding players’ decision, it also rewards them immediately with tangible stuff for their characters.

    Meta-Gaming with Experience Points

    The Order of the Stick had an arc dealing with experience points. After coming back from an adventure, most of the party levelled up except for Belkar, the halfing ranger. Roy, the leader (and ultra-intelligent Fighter) of the group explained that it is very likely that Belkar joined the group too late and was a few experience points behind. Belkar’s response? He began to kill bugs left and right in hope to rake up the XP.

    Elan, the party Bard, then informed a frustrated Belkar that what he was doing was futile, for according to D&D 3.5 rules, Belkar will need to kill something closer to his level. And that when Belkar took a look at Elan and with daggers drawn sprung after him. When restrained later, Belkar went into a rant on how as halfing he had things difficult etc. etc. etc. when suddenly he levelled up. For roleplaying.

    Although this may be a paradoy of the experience points system, this is how I view it. It is a Meta-Plot breaking Meta-Plot device. It is so, because precisely it is the most powerful Meta-Plot ever. And even stranger, it is a Meta-Plot that has no story elements whatsoever , by default, unless the plot creator put in something explictly.

    For me, the usual experience points mechanic don’t make sense. How does killing someone, as a thief, eventually improves your chances at picking locks?

    Experience Points as part of a Character’s Meta-Plot

    Artesia has done something interesting for its experience points mechanic. Each character belongs to a specific card from the tarot, and it describes the actions that the character would have to take or story elements the character would have to experience to gain experience points. It could be betraying someone, falling into love and so on. This makes it such that the experience points mechanic becomes the meta-plot of the character.

    Well the idea is good and novel, my concern is that of party cohesion. I don’t usually get to game, when I do, I would like players to focus on working as a team and not just fighting among themselves (I’m sure my players would rather not to – they got enough stress in their life). However, this is a play style. I don’t like inter-party conflicts; but some other players and GMs find they like it. If so, I find Artesia’s Arcana system of experience points a good alternative to alignments. Players would not be doing random stuff just to get XP.

    My take on the Ultimate Meta-Plot

    I completely remove it. That’s for me. I am a GM, not an accountant! Star Trek jokes aside, the purpose of experience points is to reward players for doing stuff. However, no matter how I look at it, it just doesn’t fit into my framework of play. Systems in which when you level up and suddenly you become better at everything bothers me. Role-playing goals which give XP, like Artesia, may lead to inter-party conflicts and could lead the game to be a sandbox one in nature (there are, of course, exceptions or as a GM, you design encounters that would allow everyone to meet their arcana’s requirements to get XP).

    My solution. There is no experience points. It’s a big Meta-Plot with too much influence on play but too little impact on the story. Even role-playing experience, scenario experience and so on sometimes are too wishy-washy for the more merecenary players (and if you could get a big chunk of XP now, why wait?) and sometimes relies on GM’s fiat. So for most of my games, I take it out. In fact, my gaming preferences show that too:

    Advanced Fighting Fantasy has a XP system where at the end of each adventure, players are judged on different criterion. Did they meet the objective of the scenario? How much role-playing and team-work were shown? How about monsters killed? Each category has a upper limit, so it promotes holistic play.

    Nobilis has no explict XP mechanic. You get a few points at the end of each a story, and more if you perform a nettle rite. Nobilis is one of the games I know which weave the XP mechanic together with the plot. The Nettle Rite allows a player to suck the comsic energy of a concept, an item or anything which is important to the enemy for miracle points which could be used (in my campagin) to get character points.

    Call of Cthulhu does away with XP gains all together, instead having skills increasing as they are used and giving away Sanity rewards at the end. Another example of the experience Meta-Game device tied in with the Meta-Plot.

    I once have a D&D GM who have everyone goes up a level at the end of each adventure.

    Of course, XP is the competitive score which some players use to measure their accomplishments and secondly, it also gives them the mojo to improve their tangible abilities inside the game. Let’s try an interesting experiment though. What if we still have XP, but it has nothing to do with character advancement, but just a score?

    The XP as Carrot

    However, another perspective is this : most of the meta-plot is the stick – don’t do this, this is the law, the gods frown upon such actions blah blah blah. The XP Meta-Plot Meta-Game mechanic could be see as a carrot, with the Meta-Plot being the stick. Completely removing XP from a restrictive meta-plot heavy game could dampen the fun.

    I wonder if any GM has done this before. In Fate, it is possible to give a Fate Point (which allows the character to perform special actions or just to be extra lucky) to make a character do something. The player, if he wishes to reject the GM, must give up a Fate Point. Of course, the GM cannot just do this at whim. The player must has some Aspects, maybe a personality trait or background element, that the GM can ‘tag’ to do this. For example, a character with “Curious as a Cat” Aspect may be tagged by the GM to have her exploring the alley way. If she does so, she gets the Fate Point.

    Why not adopt an approach for this for XP? Not the “do this or else no XP!” but rather announce up-front the XP-worth of the actions. Sure, gutting the wizard who is trying to get the players for help may be worth this amount of XP, but doing the quest will net 3x or 4x more XP.

    If players go overboard with XP grinding, this is also a good time to see if the Meta Plot stands up. Does the Meta Plot specify anything for crimes and punishment? In a world where powerful adventurers who go about, are there check and balances against them?

    Back to the recurring villain problem: While there is a good reason to kill a recurring villain, it is the GM’s responsbility to make him recurring, not the player’s. Those types of villain usually stay out touch – the mastermind behind the scene, having the ability to escape when the fight looks lost or are protected by some elements of the Meta-Plot (for example, he’s of the Church, belong to a high caste in society and etc.) But I would like to remove XP out from the reasoning, and make the players’ sole motivation for killing the villain a personal one, a story-based one.

    Conclusion

    The experience points system is the most powerful Meta Plot ever. If not properly considered, it is also the one that is likely to wreck havoc. It has lots of influence on style of play, but could have no influence on the story whatsoever. Some games managed to integrate the experience system with the plot, such as Call of Cthulhu and Nobilis, and others give out rewards only at the end of the game session.

    The point is – experience points mechanic would influence how a player would act. If you want your story to be plot-driven, it may be a good idea to house-rule the experience point. If you are running a competitive game, then it is something you just have to live with. You could temper the party’s behaviour by announcing upfront in what ways they could get more XP, and use the other elements of the Meta Plot to keep them in check if their ways of grinding XP gets too absurd.

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    Posted by extrakun @ 7:34 pm

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  • 6 Responses

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    • Zzarchov Says:

      With the style of games it sounds like you are running I think your conclusions make alot of sense. Plot heavy games are about a set story and the XP mechanic is really a hold over from older styles of “Sandbox” gaming. If their is a story path the advancement should follow the path.

      However, it doesn’t apply as much in more player driven games that do not have a pre-set plot path or “end game”, in which case “XP” is one of the decision trees players use to guage their actions. Its a resource to both motivate actions and set timelines for future goals.

    • extrakun Says:

      I agree that in sandbox style usually a formal system for XP is needed. As well as other tangible rewards, such as magical items, statuses, henchmen and etc.

      The difficulty I found, however, is that usually people takes a meta-gaming approaching to gaining XP. Perhaps the GM and the group together could set objectives and the GM will determine the XP allocated to that objective and award XP when the objective is met. It also helps the GM to plan for the game in some way.

      I’m not sure if by ’sandbox’ one means “I want to do anything I want without informing the GM”. I rather see it as “I set the goals for my campaign and inform the GM of my direction and he adapts accordingly”.

      Of course, in a more antagonistic GM-players relationship this would not work; If I am in this case, I would go for a non-XP system, such as BRP.

    • PrecociousApprentice Says:

      I have a tendency to just GM fiat experience for my groups. I feel bad about this because it does rob the players of some of the rewards that they might otherwise feel that they have earned, rewards that are highly enjoyalbe. A character that has earned his power is much more enjoyable that one that was given it.

      The thing I find most objectional in the traditional D&D style “kill the monsters, gain in power” model of experience is that it only caters to one style of play and basically rewards serial murder. This is fine, and can actually be fun, but it doesn’t support other styles of game, such as heavy political or social games. This model also fails to reward players for RPing their characters if the character is motivated by things other than slaying monsters. Any type of game can be played with these traditional XP systems, but it usually comes down to GM fiat for experience as he sets quest/accomplishment rewards. Again, this robs the player of some of the feeling of earning their character’s power.

      The Shadow of Yesterday has an experience system that seems to address this pretty well. They use a concept of Keys, which basically comes down to character motivations, to reward players with XP. These Keys can be changed, added to, or eliminated as they see fit. The list of “official” keys includes the traditional “kill monsters, gain power” model, as well as OD&Ds “and take their stuff to gain power” model, but also includes many other things that could be motivations for a character. These could be faith, justice, fame, assertion of personal power, forwarding group causes, and any number of other things. I find it to be a perfect way for me to not GM fiat anymore.

      I plan to houserule any game I GM to include a Shadow of Yesterday style keys experience mechanic. It is a relatively easy mechanic to add on to any game, and really enhances the possibilities for supporting different feelings in a game. It is basically a system that says “your character gets more awesome by doing the things that have most meaning to him”. I also find that the Aspects of Fate 3.0 go really well with this by saying “Here is a reward for being awesome in the ways that your character is awesome!” Both of these will be in every game I GM.

      Enough already of this rant. Thanks for the post.

    • extrakun Says:

      Thanks PrecociousApprentice, the Shadows of Yesterday sounds like something I would like to check out.

    • The Recursion King Says:

      Good, thought provoking post that has made me blog about experience as a class reward : http://therecursionking.blogspot.com/2009/06/experience-points-as-class-rewards.html

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